Living in the 3rd Bardo Carnival
Walk a Mile Through the Sixties With Me27 total reviews
Comment from Liz O'Neill
Some won't be able to visualize this. I, of course find it amusing:"Joe might have read some of Carl Jung's writings on Wentz's classic, but I rather doubt it. No computers back then. No Google. No Amazon. Libraries listings lagged behind. As far as bookstores were concerned, Joe was as broke as I." This is a good reflection to give the reader cause to pause: " Where would I place myself? In light of this story, it would depend on whether we're talking about the 24-year-old who gambled on a vial of clear liquid, and somehow survived ... or the 84-year-old who dodders through his days and nights grateful that he's been given these days and nights to dodder through."
This describes me: "Some people have a sustained drive toward attaining spiritual awakening. They may have experienced glimpses of, or have a compelling faith there is, a state of higher awareness that forces their eyes to stay on the goal. They realize that "working on themselves" is a lifetime endeavor."
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Some won't be able to visualize this. I, of course find it amusing:"Joe might have read some of Carl Jung's writings on Wentz's classic, but I rather doubt it. No computers back then. No Google. No Amazon. Libraries listings lagged behind. As far as bookstores were concerned, Joe was as broke as I." This is a good reflection to give the reader cause to pause: " Where would I place myself? In light of this story, it would depend on whether we're talking about the 24-year-old who gambled on a vial of clear liquid, and somehow survived ... or the 84-year-old who dodders through his days and nights grateful that he's been given these days and nights to dodder through."
This describes me: "Some people have a sustained drive toward attaining spiritual awakening. They may have experienced glimpses of, or have a compelling faith there is, a state of higher awareness that forces their eyes to stay on the goal. They realize that "working on themselves" is a lifetime endeavor."
Comment Written 21-Oct-2023
Comment from judiverse
Yes, those were the days (I suppose.) For you, it was once and done. Living in the country, I didn't witness that kind of scene. When we lived in Boston during the 70s, I saw vestiges of it in people hanging around the Commons, etc. I must have read about it in college. I definitely wouldn't see nausea as something to enjoy, regardless of what Timothy Leary said. You were fortunate you tried the experiment only once. And guru Joe thought he was doing you a favor! I like your comment about the past being frozen in time. Great comments about failing in your poem. As we grow older, we look back on those times. For you, it was a good thing you succeed in failure in that instance. Great description of how Joe had things set up for the great psychedelic experience. By the way, I just received a "3" rating from someone who was obviously new to the site. I usually check those people out, and saw that you received a (1). I admired how you gracefully you responded. When I responded to her (3) review, I wrote that she should heed your words. judi
reply by the author on 11-Sep-2023
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Yes, those were the days (I suppose.) For you, it was once and done. Living in the country, I didn't witness that kind of scene. When we lived in Boston during the 70s, I saw vestiges of it in people hanging around the Commons, etc. I must have read about it in college. I definitely wouldn't see nausea as something to enjoy, regardless of what Timothy Leary said. You were fortunate you tried the experiment only once. And guru Joe thought he was doing you a favor! I like your comment about the past being frozen in time. Great comments about failing in your poem. As we grow older, we look back on those times. For you, it was a good thing you succeed in failure in that instance. Great description of how Joe had things set up for the great psychedelic experience. By the way, I just received a "3" rating from someone who was obviously new to the site. I usually check those people out, and saw that you received a (1). I admired how you gracefully you responded. When I responded to her (3) review, I wrote that she should heed your words. judi
Comment Written 11-Sep-2023
reply by the author on 11-Sep-2023
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LOL, I remember getting the 1, but don't remember what it was on, who wrote it, or what I said. It did piss me off, though, and I know that whatever I wrote, it was through gritted teeth. It's nice to be used as an example. I'm glad you enjoyed the 3rd Bardo piece. Would you believe it? I actually contacted Joe recently. I plan to do a follow-up piece on that. You'd be amazed at where he is today!
Thank you, by the way, for reading this when it was only worth 2 pennies and then give me a six for it!
Jay
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This was the story that reviewer gave you a one-star review on. It's interesting that you heard from Joe again. I wonder if he's still drawn to those psychedelic experiences. I'll be curious to learn what you find out about his life after Leary. judi
Comment from Sally Law
My goodness, Jay, just when I think you've outdone yourself you go the extra mile. This is magnificent of the Bardo Carnival. Such a place is beyond imaginings, however you have made it up close and personal. Truly a privilege to read this and award a six. Bravo!
Sending you my best today as always,
Sal XOs
reply by the author on 13-Aug-2023
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My goodness, Jay, just when I think you've outdone yourself you go the extra mile. This is magnificent of the Bardo Carnival. Such a place is beyond imaginings, however you have made it up close and personal. Truly a privilege to read this and award a six. Bravo!
Sending you my best today as always,
Sal XOs
Comment Written 13-Aug-2023
reply by the author on 13-Aug-2023
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I had mixed feelings, as you might imagine, pulling aside the drapes enough to reveal a glimpse of a not entirely pretty part of my life for my dear friends here on FanStory to see. It would not be true to my personal memories, though, to cast it over my shoulder with the too-easy, "but I was just 24 year-years-old, don't you see!" There was responsibility for my actions and I own that responsibility one-hundred percent. But at the same time, I realize I was so very lucky that I survived it without losing all that is so precious in life.
Thank you for understanding that. Your six stars, while not necessary, do mean a lot to me, Sally.
Jay
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Most welcome. We learn and grow up, don't we? I had a child at 24 and thought, "Oh my Lord! What do I do? " My spiritual walk went much deeper in those days. Blessings dear. I was honored to award you six stars. Sal XOs
Comment from Sanku
I had thought I am not good enough to review such an article ,to make amends for my goofing up I thought i would try
I had looked up the meaning of Bardo before starting to reaI.it intrigued me to go on reading .I agree The Psychedelic Experience would be easier to digest than the Bardo Thodol.I am glad your experiment with LsD did not succeed.
I belong to the second category .I want to ,(I have tried meditation unsuccessfully )but dont have the will to sustain it ...
Thanks for the poem;you have summed up the thrill of being young.
Thanks for the trip to pluck the mountain thyme .True it felt like a gulp of pure water...
reply by the author on 13-Aug-2023
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I had thought I am not good enough to review such an article ,to make amends for my goofing up I thought i would try
I had looked up the meaning of Bardo before starting to reaI.it intrigued me to go on reading .I agree The Psychedelic Experience would be easier to digest than the Bardo Thodol.I am glad your experiment with LsD did not succeed.
I belong to the second category .I want to ,(I have tried meditation unsuccessfully )but dont have the will to sustain it ...
Thanks for the poem;you have summed up the thrill of being young.
Thanks for the trip to pluck the mountain thyme .True it felt like a gulp of pure water...
Comment Written 13-Aug-2023
reply by the author on 13-Aug-2023
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Well, I appreciate it that you did read it, Sanku, and awarded it with a six (which was not necessary, but which warms my heart). Thank you for that.
Jay
Comment from Father Flaps
Hi Jay,
An interesting entry for the Non-Fiction Writing contest. I wish you "Good Luck!"
I dabbled with cigarettes when I was very young, say 12 or 13 years old. But I never inhaled that wicked smoke. I found no enjoyment in the practice at all, and soon gave it up altogether. I think part of the reason for it was my friend (who robbed his parents' ashtrays of butts), asking me if I could smell cigarette smoke on his breath after he had eaten a peanut butter and mustard sandwich! It smelled so bad!
I had my first beer when I was 18 years old, at my graduation party. I have to say, it made me giddy and goofy, a different feeling than I had ever experienced. I only got drunk, to the point of barfing my guts up uncontrollably, once... and that was on sweet German wine. My nose, lips, and chin were numb that night. I was 21 years old, I think. And that was the end of my drinking experiences. I was educated that night. Maybe you became educated after that "drug" experience you had, as well. I never tried drugs, other than the beer and wine over a 4-year period.
Thanks for sharing your psychedelic experience. The 60's was a crazy time. That's for sure. I think your pal, Joe, was wrong, though, to invite you on that ride into the unknown. What if you had enjoyed it? You might have become a druggie. You might have switched to cocaine. You might have ended up dead. You're a damn good writer, Jay. You could have lost it all.
When it comes to searching for something ... extra, I started to think about these people who are trying to contact aliens in recent years. Ufologists like Dr. Steven Greer are showing people how to meditate, intent on drawing aliens from the skies. It's true. It's called CE5.
I think I might be closest to your #2... "Some people feel occasional nudging or quickening in the direction of "growth from the inside out," or spiritual awakening, but it is not sustained within the pressures of society." I had a spiritual awakening when I was around 24 years old. I accepted Christ as my Savior, and I was baptized on Easter Sunday night of 1976. But my walk with the Lord has been relatively private. Sometimes, when I was giving a concert somewhere, singing (and playing my guitar) with Linda Cameron, I'd give my testimony, or share a story from my life. We'd do 13 or 14 contemporary Christian songs, often a few of my own compositions. But for the most part, since those mid-90's, I've kept my talks with God private. I find that many "Christians" are actors. I don't want to be an actor.
Some of your story was over my head. I have no idea what you mean by a "3rd Bardo", for example. And I don't think you were wrong with opening the door for an old lady, or taking the curbside when you were walking a date down the street. I know you would slip a panhandler a quarter, likely much more. I know you would flop your jacket over mud so a woman could cross and not stain her shoes. I'd be surprised if you didn't do these things.
You know, I don't blame Yoko Ono for the breakup of the Beatles. I blame drugs. That's what led to their diffusion. But it was the 60's. We had the very best in music, but the worst in drugs. Playing with drugs was ... let's face it... revolution... against God, against the government, against family, but worst, against yourself.
Cheers, Buddy!
Kimbob
reply by the author on 08-Aug-2023
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Hi Jay,
An interesting entry for the Non-Fiction Writing contest. I wish you "Good Luck!"
I dabbled with cigarettes when I was very young, say 12 or 13 years old. But I never inhaled that wicked smoke. I found no enjoyment in the practice at all, and soon gave it up altogether. I think part of the reason for it was my friend (who robbed his parents' ashtrays of butts), asking me if I could smell cigarette smoke on his breath after he had eaten a peanut butter and mustard sandwich! It smelled so bad!
I had my first beer when I was 18 years old, at my graduation party. I have to say, it made me giddy and goofy, a different feeling than I had ever experienced. I only got drunk, to the point of barfing my guts up uncontrollably, once... and that was on sweet German wine. My nose, lips, and chin were numb that night. I was 21 years old, I think. And that was the end of my drinking experiences. I was educated that night. Maybe you became educated after that "drug" experience you had, as well. I never tried drugs, other than the beer and wine over a 4-year period.
Thanks for sharing your psychedelic experience. The 60's was a crazy time. That's for sure. I think your pal, Joe, was wrong, though, to invite you on that ride into the unknown. What if you had enjoyed it? You might have become a druggie. You might have switched to cocaine. You might have ended up dead. You're a damn good writer, Jay. You could have lost it all.
When it comes to searching for something ... extra, I started to think about these people who are trying to contact aliens in recent years. Ufologists like Dr. Steven Greer are showing people how to meditate, intent on drawing aliens from the skies. It's true. It's called CE5.
I think I might be closest to your #2... "Some people feel occasional nudging or quickening in the direction of "growth from the inside out," or spiritual awakening, but it is not sustained within the pressures of society." I had a spiritual awakening when I was around 24 years old. I accepted Christ as my Savior, and I was baptized on Easter Sunday night of 1976. But my walk with the Lord has been relatively private. Sometimes, when I was giving a concert somewhere, singing (and playing my guitar) with Linda Cameron, I'd give my testimony, or share a story from my life. We'd do 13 or 14 contemporary Christian songs, often a few of my own compositions. But for the most part, since those mid-90's, I've kept my talks with God private. I find that many "Christians" are actors. I don't want to be an actor.
Some of your story was over my head. I have no idea what you mean by a "3rd Bardo", for example. And I don't think you were wrong with opening the door for an old lady, or taking the curbside when you were walking a date down the street. I know you would slip a panhandler a quarter, likely much more. I know you would flop your jacket over mud so a woman could cross and not stain her shoes. I'd be surprised if you didn't do these things.
You know, I don't blame Yoko Ono for the breakup of the Beatles. I blame drugs. That's what led to their diffusion. But it was the 60's. We had the very best in music, but the worst in drugs. Playing with drugs was ... let's face it... revolution... against God, against the government, against family, but worst, against yourself.
Cheers, Buddy!
Kimbob
Comment Written 08-Aug-2023
reply by the author on 08-Aug-2023
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I'm just happy all that craziness is behind me. It was definitely not "playing with drugs" though. My head and heart were in the right place, however stupid I was to try and speed up the process by trying to rattle heaven's gates. And whatever power syndrome Joe was acting under, he had studied psychedelia deeply and, as I mentioned in my story, took notes and tape recordings of his personal experiences on LSD, before he ever suggested I try to speed up my spiritual development while he guided me. And as evidenced by that letter (which I drew up from my memory), he felt strongly that I needed to loosen the shackles that convention and social norms imprisoned me with. There is a slower, more methodical method of breaking out of those shackles. If I were struggling with such inauthenticity issues, then journaling, writing through it, forcing myself to face its various facets in the manner that Ben Franklin had his nightly lists of items he worked to rid himself of. But I was 24 ... and impatient. Now I am 84 ... and feel very grateful.
Thank you, my dear friend, for sharing my memories of those times.
Jay
Comment from lyenochka
Thank for sharing this story of your experience and you took us into that trip in a way we could experience a bit, too. I think Tom Wolfe wrote about his experiences and the military experimented with LSD, too.
Personally, my only experience with drugs is when I was giving birth. With the 26 hours of labor, they finally gave me morphine. That was nice - like your first stage of floating. The second time I was given surgery and I saw a team of wild horses gallop through the operation room. That was weird. The brain is an interesting thing!
reply by the author on 08-Aug-2023
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Thank for sharing this story of your experience and you took us into that trip in a way we could experience a bit, too. I think Tom Wolfe wrote about his experiences and the military experimented with LSD, too.
Personally, my only experience with drugs is when I was giving birth. With the 26 hours of labor, they finally gave me morphine. That was nice - like your first stage of floating. The second time I was given surgery and I saw a team of wild horses gallop through the operation room. That was weird. The brain is an interesting thing!
Comment Written 08-Aug-2023
reply by the author on 08-Aug-2023
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Yes, the brain is too marvelous and balanced to mess with. Too bad my 25 year old brain didn't know that. Thanks, Helen.
Comment from royowen
How incredibly interesting. I don't think transcendent experiences though they are a fascinating thing to read, they are so darn scary, I avoided them like the plague. But a became a seasoned drunk, and that was the extent of my "adventures" of the transcendent, brilliantly written, I'm an experiential coward, but I enjoyed these Jay, blessings Roy
reply by the author on 08-Aug-2023
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How incredibly interesting. I don't think transcendent experiences though they are a fascinating thing to read, they are so darn scary, I avoided them like the plague. But a became a seasoned drunk, and that was the extent of my "adventures" of the transcendent, brilliantly written, I'm an experiential coward, but I enjoyed these Jay, blessings Roy
Comment Written 08-Aug-2023
reply by the author on 08-Aug-2023
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We both turned out not too shabby, I'm thinking. Could have been a lot worse. Thank you, my friend, for weighing in.
Jay
Comment from LJbutterfly
Wow! This is an in depth description and explanation of the culture of the sixties. I was there, watching TV about strange things people did as a result of LSD, and borrowing books from the library about meditation, Buddhism, enlightenment, and yoga. The so-called psychedelic parties at clubs that my boyfriend (now husband) and I went to, were merely a bunch of flashing lights and loud music. I wanted to understand the times, but didn't want to be a part.
This piece, however, is what I think I was looking for back then...the personal account of a person bold enough to become immersed in the drug or LSD culture but able to come away unscathed, willing to talk about their experiences. This was enjoyable and enlightening.
reply by the author on 08-Aug-2023
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Wow! This is an in depth description and explanation of the culture of the sixties. I was there, watching TV about strange things people did as a result of LSD, and borrowing books from the library about meditation, Buddhism, enlightenment, and yoga. The so-called psychedelic parties at clubs that my boyfriend (now husband) and I went to, were merely a bunch of flashing lights and loud music. I wanted to understand the times, but didn't want to be a part.
This piece, however, is what I think I was looking for back then...the personal account of a person bold enough to become immersed in the drug or LSD culture but able to come away unscathed, willing to talk about their experiences. This was enjoyable and enlightening.
Comment Written 08-Aug-2023
reply by the author on 08-Aug-2023
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Thank you, Lorraine. You are very kind, but I was probably more stupid than intrepid. The thing of it was, I would never have considered getting involved in it if I were on my own. My Dad was a cop and he always told my sister and me that if we ever did anything illegal, it could jeopardize his job, so I didn't stray much. However, Joe was, as I said, street-savvy, and had access to the drugs that I lacked. He was also quite persuasive and I was enough into self-development, meditation, and the like, and we both shared a love of writing, so that it was probably inevitable that he would want to share his psychedelic experiences with me. When the the time was ripe, introduced me to the idea of shortening the time of my spiritual development through the use of drugs. I was ready. He had sources. I'm just terribly lucky things didn't work out so dismally as they did for some. Again, thanks, and also for the lovely six!
Jay
Comment from Paul Manton
Dear Jay, I am giving this a six on effort, honesty and precision. There is so much in here, I'm not really sure I'm competent to review it. My bands at the time were Velvet Underground, Big Brother's Holding Company and King Crimson - much later prog. rock and Genesis. But, remember too, that I was already a semi-pro folk singer who knew people like Martin Carthy, Sandy Denny, and - during my peregrinations, Keith Moon of 'The Who' - so Fairport Convention and a few others were at least in my ambit.
Did we do drugs? In the late 60s I was a student at Oxford. Did we do drugs? EVERYBODY did drugs - a local myth declared Oxford 'Cannabis Centre of Europe'.
But we didn't do acid - and many who did were not as lucky as you. Hard for me to get a handle on Bardo, not being American - anyone at Woodstock would have been easy - but not the local icons (New York for Bardo?) Before Debbie Harry presumably?
The Tibetan book of the Dead sounds like a landmine to me - but I understand the cult status it engendered amongst users - and the whole Buddhist involvement with enhanced consciousness - yes, I certainly relate to that. Many good Christian folk are probably fleeing for their lives, reading this - but they should consider the supernatural that many of us so easily espouse. Angels, demons, miracles, prophecy, speaking in tongues - and lots more, have been part of my faith, and experience, for half a lifetime. Prayer and meditation, study of the scriptures, corporate worship - please don't tell me, Mr. Fundamentalist, that these do not have referents elsewhere!
Well, I'm glad you survived long enough to reach that ripe old age - and from reading your articles, there seems to be a lot more fuel in the tank.
I hope Joe has managed to survive too. It would be a great reunion - as to 'the skimmer of stones - I hear the same cadences in Eliot, studied in Oxford so long ago -
'We shall not cease from exploration/And the end of all our exploring/Will be to arrive where we started/And know the place for the first time.' ('Little Gidding' from 'Four Quartets'.)
Very Zen, don't you think?
Paul
reply by the author on 08-Aug-2023
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Dear Jay, I am giving this a six on effort, honesty and precision. There is so much in here, I'm not really sure I'm competent to review it. My bands at the time were Velvet Underground, Big Brother's Holding Company and King Crimson - much later prog. rock and Genesis. But, remember too, that I was already a semi-pro folk singer who knew people like Martin Carthy, Sandy Denny, and - during my peregrinations, Keith Moon of 'The Who' - so Fairport Convention and a few others were at least in my ambit.
Did we do drugs? In the late 60s I was a student at Oxford. Did we do drugs? EVERYBODY did drugs - a local myth declared Oxford 'Cannabis Centre of Europe'.
But we didn't do acid - and many who did were not as lucky as you. Hard for me to get a handle on Bardo, not being American - anyone at Woodstock would have been easy - but not the local icons (New York for Bardo?) Before Debbie Harry presumably?
The Tibetan book of the Dead sounds like a landmine to me - but I understand the cult status it engendered amongst users - and the whole Buddhist involvement with enhanced consciousness - yes, I certainly relate to that. Many good Christian folk are probably fleeing for their lives, reading this - but they should consider the supernatural that many of us so easily espouse. Angels, demons, miracles, prophecy, speaking in tongues - and lots more, have been part of my faith, and experience, for half a lifetime. Prayer and meditation, study of the scriptures, corporate worship - please don't tell me, Mr. Fundamentalist, that these do not have referents elsewhere!
Well, I'm glad you survived long enough to reach that ripe old age - and from reading your articles, there seems to be a lot more fuel in the tank.
I hope Joe has managed to survive too. It would be a great reunion - as to 'the skimmer of stones - I hear the same cadences in Eliot, studied in Oxford so long ago -
'We shall not cease from exploration/And the end of all our exploring/Will be to arrive where we started/And know the place for the first time.' ('Little Gidding' from 'Four Quartets'.)
Very Zen, don't you think?
Paul
Comment Written 08-Aug-2023
reply by the author on 08-Aug-2023
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Zen, indeed, that Eliot quote. I will try to pull it up.
Was I lucky? Oh, yes! Of course, I was lucky. Blameworthy? Looking back from today I have to say, no. But to read one reviewer of my little story, I'm neither lucky nor blameless (since I apparently wrote my post under the inspiration of LSD). She figured a suitable punishment would to to give me one star. In other reviews, I sensed a feeling of threat in the words of readers.
You were among others here who recognized I wasn't looking for recruits for chemical enlightenment. I certainly wasn't looking to be praised for my courage at the time. I did hope others would be able to see their own growing up somehow reflected in the zeal and confusion and excitement of being 24 and sensing there was something more to living than what I was daily experiencing.
Thank you for being you, Paul. The six is lovely, too!
Jay
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Welcome, my friend.
Comment from Katherine M. (k-11)
I don't know what to say about your experiment. I am somebody who smoked cigarettes and drank alcohol, but was much too scared to touch anything else - I have enough trouble staying in touch with reality at the best of times, without giving a push off the rails a helping hand. However, I will say your research and presentation of it is extensive and impeccable. Tremendous effort. kay
reply by the author on 08-Aug-2023
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I don't know what to say about your experiment. I am somebody who smoked cigarettes and drank alcohol, but was much too scared to touch anything else - I have enough trouble staying in touch with reality at the best of times, without giving a push off the rails a helping hand. However, I will say your research and presentation of it is extensive and impeccable. Tremendous effort. kay
Comment Written 07-Aug-2023
reply by the author on 08-Aug-2023
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Thank you, Kay, for reading and perhaps sensing the misgivings I felt at the time and my realization that I was one of the lucky survivors.