a month ago
<< Thread Modifed March 10 at 5:22PM >>
If it quacks like a duck, it's Donald
<< Thread Modifed March 10 at 5:22PM >>
When this suggestion first appeared, it seemed like an unbelievable conspiracy theory. With every passing day, however, it becomes increasingly supported by analysis in the mainstream media. The highest office in the States of America is occupied by a Russian asset.
a month ago
RE: If it quacks like a duck, it's Donald
Craig,
There's been talk about that...some officials have begun to question whether trump owes putin/Russia money...It's very possible...
Yes...he loves the one man, one rule leaders, but he seems to go overboard where putin is concerned.
It's obvious, at least to me, that trump's so mixed up, that he's not able to function normally...
he just doesn't know what to do...
come on now, today tariffs, tomorrow no, next week tariffs, then another change...he's showing the world that he's losing it...I mean mentally, his niece already said he has a mental problem...(she doesn't like him at all)
You can see it in his face, and when he speaks he just isn't making sense...threatening everyone, is what seems to be the way he hopes to get by.
he knows he's in trouble, and trying to get ahead of it, by telling his supporters all will get better, after a short difficult period of time...sure, as long as he's able to go and play golf...
What bothers me the most, is what are the republicans doing, and when the democrats went along with that censure, I questioned their reasoning...of course it was said...
"we must stand for proper decorum"..
.all that while trump continues to lie to the American people over and over again.
Let me ask you a question, I know what I think, but what doe DEI, mean to you...I ask because of something I just read..
Just Some Thoughts...
RE: If it quacks like a duck, it's Donald
Craig,
There's been talk about that...some officials have begun to question whether trump owes putin/Russia money...It's very possible...
Yes...he loves the one man, one rule leaders, but he seems to go overboard where putin is concerned.
It's obvious, at least to me, that trump's so mixed up, that he's not able to function normally...
he just doesn't know what to do...
come on now, today tariffs, tomorrow no, next week tariffs, then another change...he's showing the world that he's losing it...I mean mentally, his niece already said he has a mental problem...(she doesn't like him at all)
You can see it in his face, and when he speaks he just isn't making sense...threatening everyone, is what seems to be the way he hopes to get by.
he knows he's in trouble, and trying to get ahead of it, by telling his supporters all will get better, after a short difficult period of time...sure, as long as he's able to go and play golf...
What bothers me the most, is what are the republicans doing, and when the democrats went along with that censure, I questioned their reasoning...of course it was said...
"we must stand for proper decorum"..
.all that while trump continues to lie to the American people over and over again.
Let me ask you a question, I know what I think, but what doe DEI, mean to you...I ask because of something I just read..
Just Some Thoughts...
a month ago
RE: If it quacks like a duck, it's Donald
I'm by no means an expert on DEI matters, Victoria. I've only my casual layman's understanding of how it works, and that is mainly from a point of view of my country. I think the ideas are pretty similar to those in the US, with some subtle differences. I stand to be corrected if I get something wrong.
In Australia, we've long had anti-discrimination and equal opportunity laws. Anti-discrimination means it's illegal to disadvantage someone because of their race, gender, sexual preferences, age, religion and some other factors. Equal opportunity means everyone should have the same employment and life opportunities, without regard to these attributes.
In addition, we have a policy called affirmative action (sometimes, I think unfortunately, referred to as positive discrimination), which basically means that in suitable jobs, where all other factors are equal, if it comes to a choice between a person who belongs to a minority group or a group underrepresented in that type of role, and someone who is not from such a group, preference should be given to that person. The aim is to promote equal opportunity in the future (e.g. no more "jobs for the boys").
I'll add I have no problem with this idea. It specifically doesn't state an inferior applicant should be given a job over a better qualified one, and if all things are otherwise equal, why not appoint someone who will lead to a more diverse (and therefore balanced) workforce?
In this country, some of our political parties have adopted "quotas" with regard to female representatives, where they aim to have them making up 30, 40 or 50% of the numbers. In some parties, the numbers have, until recently, been much lower than that. I see this as entirely reasonable, given that 50% of the population is female.
One way in which DEI and our programs might be different (though I'm not sure about this) is that our diversity principles, especially workplace ones, have mostly been legislated (i.e. they are compulsory). I think, by and large they are voluntary in the US. You could correct me on this if I'm wrong.
Of course, in this country, and I'm sure yours, there are those who reject DEI simply because they are sexist, racist, homophobic, transphobic or ageist. Invariably, they'll argue that the poor male, straight, white, young, able-bodied citizens in our societies are the victims. Boo hoo.
Not sure if that is of any help or not, since I don't know the context of what you read.
RE: If it quacks like a duck, it's Donald
I'm by no means an expert on DEI matters, Victoria. I've only my casual layman's understanding of how it works, and that is mainly from a point of view of my country. I think the ideas are pretty similar to those in the US, with some subtle differences. I stand to be corrected if I get something wrong.
In Australia, we've long had anti-discrimination and equal opportunity laws. Anti-discrimination means it's illegal to disadvantage someone because of their race, gender, sexual preferences, age, religion and some other factors. Equal opportunity means everyone should have the same employment and life opportunities, without regard to these attributes.
In addition, we have a policy called affirmative action (sometimes, I think unfortunately, referred to as positive discrimination), which basically means that in suitable jobs, where all other factors are equal, if it comes to a choice between a person who belongs to a minority group or a group underrepresented in that type of role, and someone who is not from such a group, preference should be given to that person. The aim is to promote equal opportunity in the future (e.g. no more "jobs for the boys").
I'll add I have no problem with this idea. It specifically doesn't state an inferior applicant should be given a job over a better qualified one, and if all things are otherwise equal, why not appoint someone who will lead to a more diverse (and therefore balanced) workforce?
In this country, some of our political parties have adopted "quotas" with regard to female representatives, where they aim to have them making up 30, 40 or 50% of the numbers. In some parties, the numbers have, until recently, been much lower than that. I see this as entirely reasonable, given that 50% of the population is female.
One way in which DEI and our programs might be different (though I'm not sure about this) is that our diversity principles, especially workplace ones, have mostly been legislated (i.e. they are compulsory). I think, by and large they are voluntary in the US. You could correct me on this if I'm wrong.
Of course, in this country, and I'm sure yours, there are those who reject DEI simply because they are sexist, racist, homophobic, transphobic or ageist. Invariably, they'll argue that the poor male, straight, white, young, able-bodied citizens in our societies are the victims. Boo hoo.
Not sure if that is of any help or not, since I don't know the context of what you read.
a month ago
RE: If it quacks like a duck, it's Donald
Thanks Craig this was very informative.
You are correct, there are no Federal laws mandating DEI in the U.S. It is voluntary, and each individual organization establishes their own standards and procedures. It is a concept that many organizations decided to follow, rather than specific legal procedures they are required to follow. Therefore, any blanket condemnation of DEI is absurd, since there is no definitive legal definition of it. Like you said, "Of course, in this country, and I'm sure yours, there are those who reject DEI simply because they are sexist, racist, homophobic, transphobic or ageist. Invariably, they'll argue that the poor male, straight, white, young, able-bodied citizens in our societies are the victims. Boo hoo."
I should mention that there are Federal anti-discrimination laws in the U.S. which no reasonable person would be opposed to, unless one is a bigot.
And if DEI did discriminate against "poor male, straight, white...citizens...", they would have the same legal recourse (anti-discrimination laws) that marginalized folks have had to resort to in recent decades.
RE: If it quacks like a duck, it's Donald
Thanks Craig this was very informative.
You are correct, there are no Federal laws mandating DEI in the U.S. It is voluntary, and each individual organization establishes their own standards and procedures. It is a concept that many organizations decided to follow, rather than specific legal procedures they are required to follow. Therefore, any blanket condemnation of DEI is absurd, since there is no definitive legal definition of it. Like you said, "Of course, in this country, and I'm sure yours, there are those who reject DEI simply because they are sexist, racist, homophobic, transphobic or ageist. Invariably, they'll argue that the poor male, straight, white, young, able-bodied citizens in our societies are the victims. Boo hoo."
I should mention that there are Federal anti-discrimination laws in the U.S. which no reasonable person would be opposed to, unless one is a bigot.
And if DEI did discriminate against "poor male, straight, white...citizens...", they would have the same legal recourse (anti-discrimination laws) that marginalized folks have had to resort to in recent decades.
a month ago
RE: If it quacks like a duck, it's Donald
And by the way, you are spot-on about Trump and Russia. I was thinking of posting about this myself. I am considering a detailed follow-up to your post documenting how traitor Trump has blatantly sided with Russia over his own country going back years.
RE: If it quacks like a duck, it's Donald
And by the way, you are spot-on about Trump and Russia. I was thinking of posting about this myself. I am considering a detailed follow-up to your post documenting how traitor Trump has blatantly sided with Russia over his own country going back years.
a month ago
RE: If it quacks like a duck, it's Donald
Please do, Bill. I was thinking about posting a follow up with some very interesting claims by a couple of ex-KGB operatives who have some very interesting things to say about how Trump was groomed... but I'll wait until you've presented your information.
RE: If it quacks like a duck, it's Donald
Please do, Bill. I was thinking about posting a follow up with some very interesting claims by a couple of ex-KGB operatives who have some very interesting things to say about how Trump was groomed... but I'll wait until you've presented your information.
a month ago
RE: If it quacks like a duck, it's Donald
Let me share a little story with you about DEI, or whatever you want to call it.
Once upon a time, an immigrant and his American wife jointly formed a company. They structured it so that they each legally owned it 50/50.
One day, one of their customers begged them to change their ownership to 51/49 so that they could advertise the company to THEIR customers, and to the US government, as minority owned. So they did. And every year, their company would win "minority business supplier of the year" award, and receive a trophy.
A few years later there was some change in which minority was more important to the Feds, so they begged them to flip the ownership to 49/51. And they did.
This game has gone back and forth. Every year they get the minority supplier of the year award, even though by all metrics they are actually the TOP supplier, but it makes their customer look better to give them the minority award.
My parents deal with this stuff all the time. When my mom used to go into the grocery store, white women would ooh and aah and ask if her kids were adopted.
DEI is a mafia-type system that mutated out of the secular social justice movement. It stands for:
Division
Extortion
Inquisition
The idea that it's truly about equality and that other stuff is nonsense. It's a money-making scheme, and everyone knows it. My family has been played like pawns in this game for decades.
How do you think it feels to win an award every year just for the color of your skin?
RE: If it quacks like a duck, it's Donald
Let me share a little story with you about DEI, or whatever you want to call it.
Once upon a time, an immigrant and his American wife jointly formed a company. They structured it so that they each legally owned it 50/50.
One day, one of their customers begged them to change their ownership to 51/49 so that they could advertise the company to THEIR customers, and to the US government, as minority owned. So they did. And every year, their company would win "minority business supplier of the year" award, and receive a trophy.
A few years later there was some change in which minority was more important to the Feds, so they begged them to flip the ownership to 49/51. And they did.
This game has gone back and forth. Every year they get the minority supplier of the year award, even though by all metrics they are actually the TOP supplier, but it makes their customer look better to give them the minority award.
My parents deal with this stuff all the time. When my mom used to go into the grocery store, white women would ooh and aah and ask if her kids were adopted.
DEI is a mafia-type system that mutated out of the secular social justice movement. It stands for:
Division
Extortion
Inquisition
The idea that it's truly about equality and that other stuff is nonsense. It's a money-making scheme, and everyone knows it. My family has been played like pawns in this game for decades.
How do you think it feels to win an award every year just for the color of your skin?
a month ago
RE: If it quacks like a duck, it's Donald
Craig,
I wanted to make sure I was on the right track, before I commented, and quite frankly...what you just posted is very much like what I was thinking.
Bill,
What I like best, about your comments, is how you make it clear, that if any worker felt he or she was being discriminated against, because of DEI, they would have the same recourse that others had in the past.
I must say,I now feel comfortable because that's exactly what I was thinking.
What disturbs me is what trump is saying about DEI, along with those that fear being left behind.
My thoughts are based on what I have experienced, through the years, in the workplace, and the experiences of my husband, and children.
While I believe there was a sincere effort by business to include, those workers, that had been left out, basically because, let's just say they were "different" from the usual, I think it was a good thing.
It was costly for some companies to create programs that worked toward the idea of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion. Also each company designed its own program.
My oldest son was very much involved in such a program, he was a graduate of Northeastern University, in Boston, and graduated with several certificate programs from both Columbia, and N.Y.U.
here in NewYork.
He was the only black in the program, and ended up, traveling across this country, and overseas...He was a well respected Chemical and Environmental Engineer...
Had it not been for that program he would never have gotten as far as he did...with the same company for many years..
He retired after his health became a problem.
Sadly he passed away back in 2022.
I've been reading about these programs, and I find that several companies have moved away from such programs, and I can also understand that too.
However, what I believe trump had done, it to put a negative connotation on the idea of DEI, assuming that those in such programs, are not qualified, and are taking away from those much more deserving.
In other words, he's saying, that minorities are just not fit for certain kinds of professional work...plain and simply put.
Thanks guys!
Just Some Thoughts
RE: If it quacks like a duck, it's Donald
Craig,
I wanted to make sure I was on the right track, before I commented, and quite frankly...what you just posted is very much like what I was thinking.
Bill,
What I like best, about your comments, is how you make it clear, that if any worker felt he or she was being discriminated against, because of DEI, they would have the same recourse that others had in the past.
I must say,I now feel comfortable because that's exactly what I was thinking.
What disturbs me is what trump is saying about DEI, along with those that fear being left behind.
My thoughts are based on what I have experienced, through the years, in the workplace, and the experiences of my husband, and children.
While I believe there was a sincere effort by business to include, those workers, that had been left out, basically because, let's just say they were "different" from the usual, I think it was a good thing.
It was costly for some companies to create programs that worked toward the idea of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion. Also each company designed its own program.
My oldest son was very much involved in such a program, he was a graduate of Northeastern University, in Boston, and graduated with several certificate programs from both Columbia, and N.Y.U.
here in NewYork.
He was the only black in the program, and ended up, traveling across this country, and overseas...He was a well respected Chemical and Environmental Engineer...
Had it not been for that program he would never have gotten as far as he did...with the same company for many years..
He retired after his health became a problem.
Sadly he passed away back in 2022.
I've been reading about these programs, and I find that several companies have moved away from such programs, and I can also understand that too.
However, what I believe trump had done, it to put a negative connotation on the idea of DEI, assuming that those in such programs, are not qualified, and are taking away from those much more deserving.
In other words, he's saying, that minorities are just not fit for certain kinds of professional work...plain and simply put.
Thanks guys!
Just Some Thoughts
a month ago
RE: If it quacks like a duck, it's Donald
Message edited: a month ago
RE: If it quacks like a duck, it's Donald
Message edited: a month ago
Glad to hear your son was an example of the value of such programs, Victoria. There is a well-known saying that all some people need is a foot in the door.
Harambe, it took me some time to understand what you were saying in your "couple" example, but I think I've got it now. I'm a little perplexed that you are so annoyed about this supplier company being awarded a trophy. Is it that important? And how would you recommend things be done differently?
As for the example about being asked if you were adopted, I can understand that could become quite tiresome, but I doubt the people who asked that question meant to offend by it. I can cite a similar experience. My mother gave birth to me very late in life, or what was considered such at the time. She was over 40. Also, due to ill health, when I was in my early-to-mid teens, she looked much older than she actually was. Consequently, strangers would sometimes make comments about her grandson - meaning me. People can be cruel without intending to be. I don't see how either your example or mine has anything to do with DEI programs in the workforce.
Also, it occurs to me that concluding from this extremely specific example that all DEI initiatives are therefore worthless across every possible sphere of discrimination seems very much like a hasty generalisation fallacy of the highest order.
a month ago
RE: If it quacks like a duck, it's Donald
I could go deeper into how such programs were helpful to me, and my husband...but no need, I'm comfortable knowing that such programs Worked, at least for the majority of the time.
I can also understand why some companies have
discontinued DEI...
Society has long been one sided, and quite frankly it was acceptable to the overall population of this country...but things have changed somewhat, and so we move on.
DEI has its roots in the Civil Rights Act of 1964, and I believe without such programs society might never have changed...and those that look like me, and in some cases, woman, and yes others, would never have been included in a society that had no problem with discrimination.
Even today, there are some that aren't pleased when they see a commercial that includes minorities. Of course I can tell right now those that will dispute that, but its true.
There has been several contests that invited political rants, and posts...and one could learn a lot from what some right here on Fanstory had to say.
People began to assume those involved were not worthy, either not capable, because of their race, or lifestyle or they were taking jobs, and positions away from the majority...
In other words, prejudice was acceptable in this country for a long time, and that's why the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was needed...
Oh I know there are some here that don't like me mentioning racism, or discrimination, but to them I say, I've lived in the real world all of my life.
It wasn't only to protect blacks, it was put in place to protect the rights of everyone, root out bias in the work place, and open career pathways for all people.
There's so much more that could be said about trump and his executive order banning diversity, equity and inclusion programs across the U.S.government, but I will repeat myself, by just saying I believe they opened doors for many people that had been faced with closed doors for many years....Thanks Craig, and Bill for your comments...
Just Some Thoughts
RE: If it quacks like a duck, it's Donald
I could go deeper into how such programs were helpful to me, and my husband...but no need, I'm comfortable knowing that such programs Worked, at least for the majority of the time.
I can also understand why some companies have
discontinued DEI...
Society has long been one sided, and quite frankly it was acceptable to the overall population of this country...but things have changed somewhat, and so we move on.
DEI has its roots in the Civil Rights Act of 1964, and I believe without such programs society might never have changed...and those that look like me, and in some cases, woman, and yes others, would never have been included in a society that had no problem with discrimination.
Even today, there are some that aren't pleased when they see a commercial that includes minorities. Of course I can tell right now those that will dispute that, but its true.
There has been several contests that invited political rants, and posts...and one could learn a lot from what some right here on Fanstory had to say.
People began to assume those involved were not worthy, either not capable, because of their race, or lifestyle or they were taking jobs, and positions away from the majority...
In other words, prejudice was acceptable in this country for a long time, and that's why the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was needed...
Oh I know there are some here that don't like me mentioning racism, or discrimination, but to them I say, I've lived in the real world all of my life.
It wasn't only to protect blacks, it was put in place to protect the rights of everyone, root out bias in the work place, and open career pathways for all people.
There's so much more that could be said about trump and his executive order banning diversity, equity and inclusion programs across the U.S.government, but I will repeat myself, by just saying I believe they opened doors for many people that had been faced with closed doors for many years....Thanks Craig, and Bill for your comments...
Just Some Thoughts
a month ago
RE: If it quacks like a duck, it's Donald
CD, the problem is twofold: a soft bigotry of low expectations, and inadequate acknowledgment of high performance.
That example was from my parents' company but let me give you a very different example of DEI gone wrong: the film "Soul" by Pixar. The idea of making a film about Black musical culture was great, but they ended up with inferior music for the film written by white musicians doing an average job. Why on earth would they do that? The reason I listen to jazz is not because the people who wrote and performed the music are Black. I listen to it because it is great music. Doing mediocre knockoffs and trying to pass it off as sincere is far and away the worst type of cultural appropriation. So now they'll have to make up for it probably by hiring someone brown to play Snow White. I don't really care whether Snow White is white or not, but the whole thing looks so foolish and inorganic, trying to force puzzle pieces together to fit one of 16 personality types.
I don't visit a Black (or any other cultural) establishment because it is a Black-owned business. I go there because it is the BEST at something. This is what we should be doing instead of DEI. Rather than merely looking for diversity of skin tone, seek diverse forms of excellence, and work harder to improve find the best tool for the job.
RE: If it quacks like a duck, it's Donald
CD, the problem is twofold: a soft bigotry of low expectations, and inadequate acknowledgment of high performance.
That example was from my parents' company but let me give you a very different example of DEI gone wrong: the film "Soul" by Pixar. The idea of making a film about Black musical culture was great, but they ended up with inferior music for the film written by white musicians doing an average job. Why on earth would they do that? The reason I listen to jazz is not because the people who wrote and performed the music are Black. I listen to it because it is great music. Doing mediocre knockoffs and trying to pass it off as sincere is far and away the worst type of cultural appropriation. So now they'll have to make up for it probably by hiring someone brown to play Snow White. I don't really care whether Snow White is white or not, but the whole thing looks so foolish and inorganic, trying to force puzzle pieces together to fit one of 16 personality types.
I don't visit a Black (or any other cultural) establishment because it is a Black-owned business. I go there because it is the BEST at something. This is what we should be doing instead of DEI. Rather than merely looking for diversity of skin tone, seek diverse forms of excellence, and work harder to improve find the best tool for the job.
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